Do Ban Appeals work? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Argentino · Sep 14, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

This is the answer i got after appealing a 2nd time:

Hello,

Our records confirm that you accepted gold or items in game in exchange for real world money or virtual items outside of the Guild Wars service. We do not provide the exact methods used to pinpoint the offense, as this preserves our ability to track and monitor the offending activity being used. Please note this is our final decision regarding this issue. As such, any further correspondence regarding this issue may be closed without response.

Regards

I just send another ticket asking for more information about that 'record'.
According to privacy laws in my country i have the right to know what they keep in records about me, my actions and my account. I'm not sure about what gw rules say about this though.

I haven't talked to my friend about this yet, haven't seen or heard him since the ban occured. It's strange they even noticed this. I needed gold, he needed things i had, like materials, green wep .... so every time he traded me i gave him something.
To be honest ... i'm not sure it's good to keep sending in tickets about this. It's 'only' a 3 day ban, lose alot of gold (:s), but after that i can play again. I just feel treated unfair and not helped by support at all. It's like they judge me based on some facts gathered by an automated system, and won't get into things.

nbajammer · Sep 14, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argentino

Our records confirm that you accepted gold or items in game in exchange for real world money or virtual items outside of the Guild Wars service. We do not provide the exact methods used to pinpoint the offense, as this preserves our ability to track and monitor the offending activity being used.

One has to wonder how they can prove you did anything outside of the Guild Wars service. Sure, trading 400k in gold might be suspicious, and sure the person trading it *might* have bought it, but how can they prove he didn't farm it, or save up, etc? The idea of "he didn't farm for it, and he didn't save up for it therefore he had to have bought it outside the game" is a load of crap. If they look at these things, and look at the "evidence" as proof, they should be questioning it. But by saying "Our records confirm..." they are saying they know it was bought outside the game and I'd like to know just what these so-called "records" are. Are they spying on our every move when not logged into the game?

Same kind of thing I went through with eBay awhile back when they falsely accused me of shill bidding. I got the same song-and-dance from them, and yet I knew for a fact that they didn't have any records of anything. I told them I'd never, ever sell another item on their service and that they'd seen the last dime of my money they'd see due to extremely poor quality customer service (trust me, not a good idea to lie to your customers). This, to me, is just as bad. If Anet really does have these so-called "records" that supposedly confirm an outside purchase, we're all in trouble.

*Darcy* · Sep 14, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24

ANet and NCSoft prosecute gold-seller organizations. They are not going to expose their investigation and detection methods to a player.

I would say that the money was sourced from a gold-seller and ANet considers you an end-user, but not part of the original gold sell/buy transaction. Thus you are only temp banned and the gold removed. Thus teaching you to be more careful.

As to records and your right-to-know, not a chance, kid. Read your EULA. Your only recourse is don't play the game.

DamFiNo · Sep 14, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

ANet and NCSoft prosecute gold-seller organizations. They are not going to expose their investigation and detection methods to a player.

I would say that the money was sourced from a gold-seller and ANet considers you an end-user, but not part of the original gold sell/buy transaction. Thus you are only temp banned and the gold removed. Thus teaching you to be more careful.

As to records and your right-to-know, not a chance, kid. Read your EULA. Your only recourse is don't play the game.

I have a feeling the laws of a country, if the country chooses to enforce them, may very well trump an EULA...

Does-it-Matter · Sep 15, 2008, 01:12 AM // 01:12

EULAs are commonly regarded as worth the paper they are written on. As of the current date clicking "OK" or "I agree" or what not does not constitute a signature, and thus not a legally binding contract. If brought into a legal matter of debate (court for instance) it would reside with the judge or whomever makes the final decision to decide if both yours and the EULA's writer gave each other enough of an intent and understanding of an agreement - and thus his/hers, not the EULA's, final decision.

There are several companies (Apple, if I remember correction is one of them) pushing to have clicking "OK" constitute a legally binding contract.

Another thing to keep in mind is in some cases physical locations of servers dictate policy and not simply you connecting to them from your country.

Best of luck though!

---

Back on Topic:

I was banned once a couple years back. Someone had gotten a hold of my account (which was somewhat confusing, since I gave my password to no one and used only personal computers to log in... my best guess was it was similar/exact to another log in more easily accessible) and started to say some pretty non-flattering things to anyone and everyone possible.

I sent in a support ticket stating that I was in the middle of no where, many, many miles away from any source of internet connection and definitely without a computer... and that 180 Marines in my company could vouch for me.

They re-activated the account and luckily nothing was missing. Though my Guild did have an interesting conversation with me about some of the things "I" said.

Quote:

Our records confirm that you accepted gold or items in game in exchange for real world money or virtual items outside of the Guild Wars service. We do not provide the exact methods used to pinpoint the offense, as this preserves our ability to track and monitor the offending activity being used.

This would drive me nuts as far as the plausibility of it. Unless they possess some sort of Orwellian technology currently unannounced to us it would seem impossible to confirm without a reasonable doubt that you did such a thing.

There are numerous scenarios that come from that:

1) Person A has a character on Guild Wars, Person B using same computer purchases Gold (person B may or may not have an account) from Gold Seller A. Person A and B (or just A) are now banned.

I would think it would be idiotic to have your Guild Wars character on your Gold Selling page, so one would assume the "This character will deliver you the Gold" comes through a source like email or IM client. Also, to log in and/or operate your Gold Selling business from the same location as one you log into Guild Wars seems equally ridiculous ("Hey Bob, this location operates an EBay page and the GW Client from there also donates thousands of platinum to characters with infrequent interactions.")

So to have a confirmation without reasonable uncertainty you need to not only associate a Gold Seller's EBay location to the Gold Seller's client, but you need to associate the buyer's bidding location to his/her client, then monitor them interacting.

Unless of course those steps aren't used, that trick seems a little hard to be confirmed.

And what about the chance that any or all of those locations were public computers like at a University or Library?

I think I'm going to check the eyes on my GW game boxes and see if they're watching me, paint my windows black, and put on my tinfoil hat.

Guild Wars is watching you!

(I hope that is taken with jest, and not aggression.)

DarkFlame · Sep 15, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argentino

To be honest ... i'm not sure it's good to keep sending in tickets about this. It's 'only' a 3 day ban, lose alot of gold (:s), but after that i can play again.

They won't prolong your ban or terminate your account for opening too many support tickets. At worst, they just ignore you or just keep sending canned responses. So I would pursue it, if I were you. The temp ban and gold might not matter much in the long run, but the marks added against your account does.

And definitely talk to your friend. Find out if there was anything wrong on his end and if he could open a ticket on your behalf as well.

Tito Bad Boy Ortiz · Oct 17, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by optymind

on the game GW or the GWG forums? The quote you speak of is from someone who thought my post was about GWG (it's about GW the game).

From the game, first time i got perm banned when the duping was happening, second time was a mistake of their part, i got a screenshot to prove this also as it is hard to believe.

Racthoh · Oct 18, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47

You'll want to get in touch with the Guild Wars Support regarding bans. The staff here can't do anything in regards to Guild Wars accounts.

Sep 14, 2008, 11:24 PM // 23:24	#23
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	ANet and NCSoft prosecute gold-seller organizations. They are not going to expose their investigation and detection methods to a player. I would say that the money was sourced from a gold-seller and ANet considers you an end-user, but not part of the original gold sell/buy transaction. Thus you are only temp banned and the gold removed. Thus teaching you to be more careful. As to records and your right-to-know, not a chance, kid. Read your EULA. Your only recourse is don't play the game. __________________ That's me, the old stick-in-the-mud non-fun moderator. (and non-understanding, also)

Sep 14, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27	#21
Argentino Academy Page Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gmt+1 Profession: N/	This is the answer i got after appealing a 2nd time: Hello, Our records confirm that you accepted gold or items in game in exchange for real world money or virtual items outside of the Guild Wars service. We do not provide the exact methods used to pinpoint the offense, as this preserves our ability to track and monitor the offending activity being used. Please note this is our final decision regarding this issue. As such, any further correspondence regarding this issue may be closed without response. Regards I just send another ticket asking for more information about that 'record'. According to privacy laws in my country i have the right to know what they keep in records about me, my actions and my account. I'm not sure about what gw rules say about this though. I haven't talked to my friend about this yet, haven't seen or heard him since the ban occured. It's strange they even noticed this. I needed gold, he needed things i had, like materials, green wep .... so every time he traded me i gave him something. To be honest ... i'm not sure it's good to keep sending in tickets about this. It's 'only' a 3 day ban, lose alot of gold (:s), but after that i can play again. I just feel treated unfair and not helped by support at all. It's like they judge me based on some facts gathered by an automated system, and won't get into things.

Oct 18, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47	#28
Racthoh Did I hear 7 heroes? Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)	You'll want to get in touch with the Guild Wars Support regarding bans. The staff here can't do anything in regards to Guild Wars accounts.